We received our 5D MK II (1 of 2) yesterday. We had ordered one online and one from the store. The one ordered online should be here next week. While we had originally intended to keep both cameras we will either be returning one or selling it. It's a long story that I don't particularly want to get into, but we paid the full price increase on both cameras.
I know there is still the option to pursue this further but at this point I don't believe that it's worth the time or frustration. I was really hoping to achieve a critical mass and force Canon and their distributors to re-think passing on the price increase to their customers. I know a lot of friends and other photographers were deeply disappointed with the way that Canon and their distributors handled the problem, but I don't believe enough people were troubled by this price increase to effect change. I think if this scenario had occurred in the U.S. as opposed to Canada the outcome may have been different.
Even though I didn't manage to secure the lower pricing I learned a lot from this whole ordeal. I think I could have raised awareness better and been more dutiful contacting the appropriate people. This situation has also made me realize the importance of community in photography, knowing who to talk to about situations like this can make things go a lot smoother. I'm also going to be a lot more careful about the brands that I recommend in the future. How could anyone suggest Canon or their pro-distributors after the customer service they've provided?
Thanks again for taking the time to comment on / read this blog.
Saturday, December 20, 2008
Sunday, December 14, 2008
An Update
- I gave Vistek a call a couple days ago and they indicated that they had received their first shipment, that it was larger than expected at 9 cameras, and that they couldn't give an ETA on the next shipment. (Apparently all pre-orders on the list have already been contacted to pick up their camera, I think I was number 11)
- As more and more people in Canada are getting their 5D MK II's I'm wondering if anyone has had any luck securing pre-order pricing and what they've had to do to get it. I know one commenter in the previous post indicated they didn't pay the price increase, but I'm still not certain what people are doing or saying to get this.
- It seems a potential defect in the 5D MK II is gaining strength throughout various forums. The defect involves black dots next to highlights. It's most easy to notice this defect in night shots, zoomed up to or past 100%. Rob Galbraith indicated that Canon will be making an announcement addressing these issues soon. If the problem is specific to noise reduction or highlight priority custom functions than a firmware update might fix the problems, but I kind of hope that it's a sensor defect. With the way Canon has handled the release of this camera in Canada they deserve to face a widespread problem that they can't simply ignore.
- If you check the last comment in the previous post there are a couple links to other problems the 5D MK II is facing.
- Given the state of the economy in the U.S., and the above potential defects in the 5D MK II I've read of quite a few people returning the cameras-- this trend could increase. I'm not certain how Canon handles their returns but they may try to shift returned inventory to other countries like Canada. It would be wise to make sure that the camera you purchase is in fact brand new and not a returned or refurbished one---if it is you should be getting it at a discount.
- I've heard from several local photographers who have canceled their order because of the price increase, the lack of response by Canon and now the apparent lack of inventory-- plus the potential defects in this Camera provide an even stronger incentive to reconsider your order.
- Finally I've heard from a couple people / websites that another prosumer-professional level camera will be released by Canon around February. Obviously they need to update the 1DS mk III, since the new 5D is a fraction of the price (albeit without the pro focusing system). But who knows when anything will be released...
If you hear anything new, drop me a comment. I'm also curious; has anyone who ordered online received their pre-orders yet? Please let me know.
Cheers,
Rob
- As more and more people in Canada are getting their 5D MK II's I'm wondering if anyone has had any luck securing pre-order pricing and what they've had to do to get it. I know one commenter in the previous post indicated they didn't pay the price increase, but I'm still not certain what people are doing or saying to get this.
- It seems a potential defect in the 5D MK II is gaining strength throughout various forums. The defect involves black dots next to highlights. It's most easy to notice this defect in night shots, zoomed up to or past 100%. Rob Galbraith indicated that Canon will be making an announcement addressing these issues soon. If the problem is specific to noise reduction or highlight priority custom functions than a firmware update might fix the problems, but I kind of hope that it's a sensor defect. With the way Canon has handled the release of this camera in Canada they deserve to face a widespread problem that they can't simply ignore.
- If you check the last comment in the previous post there are a couple links to other problems the 5D MK II is facing.
- Given the state of the economy in the U.S., and the above potential defects in the 5D MK II I've read of quite a few people returning the cameras-- this trend could increase. I'm not certain how Canon handles their returns but they may try to shift returned inventory to other countries like Canada. It would be wise to make sure that the camera you purchase is in fact brand new and not a returned or refurbished one---if it is you should be getting it at a discount.
- I've heard from several local photographers who have canceled their order because of the price increase, the lack of response by Canon and now the apparent lack of inventory-- plus the potential defects in this Camera provide an even stronger incentive to reconsider your order.
- Finally I've heard from a couple people / websites that another prosumer-professional level camera will be released by Canon around February. Obviously they need to update the 1DS mk III, since the new 5D is a fraction of the price (albeit without the pro focusing system). But who knows when anything will be released...
If you hear anything new, drop me a comment. I'm also curious; has anyone who ordered online received their pre-orders yet? Please let me know.
Cheers,
Rob
Tuesday, December 9, 2008
Way to go Canon!
Earlier someone had commented that the way for Canon to deal with price fluctuations was to
A) Raise the price.
B) Allocate their products to the place where they'll make the most money.
It seems as though Canon has put both strategies into effect, not just raising the price.
I've read that some Best Buy's in the States had a few cameras in stock briefly. That's right. No pre-order. Just walk in off the Street and pick up a 5D MK II.
I'm wondering if Canon is considering withdrawing the release of the 5D in Canada all together.
A) Raise the price.
B) Allocate their products to the place where they'll make the most money.
It seems as though Canon has put both strategies into effect, not just raising the price.
I've read that some Best Buy's in the States had a few cameras in stock briefly. That's right. No pre-order. Just walk in off the Street and pick up a 5D MK II.
I'm wondering if Canon is considering withdrawing the release of the 5D in Canada all together.
Thursday, December 4, 2008
A few words from Canon
I received this little number in an e-mail a couple hours ago.
This doesn't feel like much of a response. I guess everyone who inquired is getting one. The letter doesn't offer a price reduction but it seems to suggest that the Canon dealers might have more information or at least be able to better answer questions now.
Vistek is closed now so I wasn't able to speak to a manager and find out if the situation has been changed at all, though I suspect it hasn't.
This doesn't feel like much of a response. I guess everyone who inquired is getting one. The letter doesn't offer a price reduction but it seems to suggest that the Canon dealers might have more information or at least be able to better answer questions now.
Vistek is closed now so I wasn't able to speak to a manager and find out if the situation has been changed at all, though I suspect it hasn't.
Monday, December 1, 2008
Important Explanation of the Sale of Goods Act
A comment made in a previous post has made me realize how important it is to very clearly explain why section 11 of the Sale of Goods Act DOES NOT act in favor of distributors like Vistek or Henry's.
The following is Section 10 and 11 from the Alberta Sale of Goods Act which can be found here
The Price
Determining price
10(1) The price in a contract of sale may be fixed by the contract or may be left to be fixed in the manner agreed by the contract or may be determined by the course of dealing between the parties.
(2) If the price is not determined in accordance with subsection (1), the buyer shall pay a reasonable price.
(3) What is a reasonable price is a question of fact dependent on the circumstances of each particular case.
RSA 1980 cS‑2 s11
Price fixed by valuation
11(1) When there is an agreement to sell goods on the terms that the price is to be fixed by the valuation of a third party and the third party cannot or does not make the valuation, the agreement is avoided.
(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), if the goods or any part of them have been delivered to and appropriated by the buyer, the buyer shall pay a reasonable price for them.
(3) If the third party is prevented from making the valuation by the fault of the seller or buyer, the party not in fault may maintain an action for damages against the party in fault.
RSA 1980 cS‑2 s12
When asked for an explanation of why this price increase could be legal the anonymous commenter cited section 11 of the sale of goods act which states "When there is an agreement to sell goods on the terms that the price is to be fixed by the valuation of a third party and the third party cannot or does not make the valuation, the agreement is avoided.".
The problem with using section 11 as a defense for raising the price is that our agreement to sell (the pre-order of the 5D MK II) was not under "terms that the price is to be fixed by the valuation of a third party". It may be that Vistek has such an agreement with Canon Canada (such that Vistek has a pre-order arrangement with Canon Canada with a price subject to the valuation of Canon USA or Canon Japan) however pre-order customers have made an agreement with a SET PRICE strictly between the distributor (Vistek, Henry's, etc) and the customer. Canon is not involved in any way.
The important point to gain from the Alberta Sale of Goods Act (which I believe is very similar between all provinces) is found in Section 10 subsection 1.
"(1) The price in a contract of sale may be fixed by the contract or may be left to be fixed in the manner agreed by the contract or may be determined by the course of dealing between the parties."
In the case of pre-order customers the price of our contracts is fixed. We have a description of the product with a given price. Our invoice also shows how much the deposit was and what the outstanding balance is. Nowhere does it say that the price is subject to change or "subject to valuation by a third party".
Also, because the price in our contract is not subject to valuation by a 3rd party, the contract cannot be avoided as Section 11 suggests. This means that anyone who has a pre-order with Vistek or Henry's SHOULD NOT agree to void their contract with Vistek or Henry's. Even if Vistek or Henry's refuse to sell you the camera at the pre-order price they have a contractual obligation to sell you the camera at the stated price on the pre-order invoice.
Obviously I'm not a laywer and this is just my interpretation of things, but it seems pretty clear to me. I'm not sure what sort of resolution you'll get in small claims court will, but it's definitely an option everyone should be investigating.
Kind Regards,
Rob
The following is Section 10 and 11 from the Alberta Sale of Goods Act which can be found here
The Price
Determining price
10(1) The price in a contract of sale may be fixed by the contract or may be left to be fixed in the manner agreed by the contract or may be determined by the course of dealing between the parties.
(2) If the price is not determined in accordance with subsection (1), the buyer shall pay a reasonable price.
(3) What is a reasonable price is a question of fact dependent on the circumstances of each particular case.
RSA 1980 cS‑2 s11
Price fixed by valuation
11(1) When there is an agreement to sell goods on the terms that the price is to be fixed by the valuation of a third party and the third party cannot or does not make the valuation, the agreement is avoided.
(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), if the goods or any part of them have been delivered to and appropriated by the buyer, the buyer shall pay a reasonable price for them.
(3) If the third party is prevented from making the valuation by the fault of the seller or buyer, the party not in fault may maintain an action for damages against the party in fault.
RSA 1980 cS‑2 s12
When asked for an explanation of why this price increase could be legal the anonymous commenter cited section 11 of the sale of goods act which states "When there is an agreement to sell goods on the terms that the price is to be fixed by the valuation of a third party and the third party cannot or does not make the valuation, the agreement is avoided.".
The problem with using section 11 as a defense for raising the price is that our agreement to sell (the pre-order of the 5D MK II) was not under "terms that the price is to be fixed by the valuation of a third party". It may be that Vistek has such an agreement with Canon Canada (such that Vistek has a pre-order arrangement with Canon Canada with a price subject to the valuation of Canon USA or Canon Japan) however pre-order customers have made an agreement with a SET PRICE strictly between the distributor (Vistek, Henry's, etc) and the customer. Canon is not involved in any way.
The important point to gain from the Alberta Sale of Goods Act (which I believe is very similar between all provinces) is found in Section 10 subsection 1.
"(1) The price in a contract of sale may be fixed by the contract or may be left to be fixed in the manner agreed by the contract or may be determined by the course of dealing between the parties."
In the case of pre-order customers the price of our contracts is fixed. We have a description of the product with a given price. Our invoice also shows how much the deposit was and what the outstanding balance is. Nowhere does it say that the price is subject to change or "subject to valuation by a third party".
Also, because the price in our contract is not subject to valuation by a 3rd party, the contract cannot be avoided as Section 11 suggests. This means that anyone who has a pre-order with Vistek or Henry's SHOULD NOT agree to void their contract with Vistek or Henry's. Even if Vistek or Henry's refuse to sell you the camera at the pre-order price they have a contractual obligation to sell you the camera at the stated price on the pre-order invoice.
Obviously I'm not a laywer and this is just my interpretation of things, but it seems pretty clear to me. I'm not sure what sort of resolution you'll get in small claims court will, but it's definitely an option everyone should be investigating.
Kind Regards,
Rob
A reposted comment
" A friend of mine picked up his 5D2 kit at Henry's on Friday evening. He was charged full pop, but says that he went back the next day, bitched about the price and received a refund for what he had a receipt for. So, obviously, SOME retailers are choosing to be reputable and to treat their customers with value.
Henry's - 1
Vistek - 0...maybe. We'll see I guess this week or next. "
Thanks for the update Chris.
If anyone else could share their experience / advice on how they secure pre-order pricing that would be greatly appreciated!
Henry's - 1
Vistek - 0...maybe. We'll see I guess this week or next. "
Thanks for the update Chris.
If anyone else could share their experience / advice on how they secure pre-order pricing that would be greatly appreciated!
Friday, November 21, 2008
Finally! A response from Canon!
"So, basically, all you're doing is bitching and moaning? You're going to buy it anyways, regardless of price, and yet you're still wasting your time complaining and hassling the folks at Canon and Vistek? I can't speak for the folks at Vistek, but I know everyone here at Canon Canada thinks that you're fucking hilarious."
Thanks for the anonymous comment Canon employee! Keep them coming, any news or further commentary is greatly appreciated ;)
To help put this comment in perspective please read the comment I replied to in the linked post. The quote above was a response.
Thanks for the anonymous comment Canon employee! Keep them coming, any news or further commentary is greatly appreciated ;)
To help put this comment in perspective please read the comment I replied to in the linked post. The quote above was a response.
Wednesday, November 19, 2008
Again, still no word.
I'm wondering if this blog should be called "Beg for Canon or Vistek to provide any sort of response".
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